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Trip like I do
Intelligence is not a freak occurance, but a recurring theme in evolution, appearing in dolphins, parrots, crows, and primates.

Could any of these species be capable of discovering God?

Remember, we discovered God only through Christ, whom God had sent to Earth for our benefit.
Rick
QUOTE (Trip like I do @ Aug 23, 06:33 PM)
Remember, we discovered God only through Christ, whom God had sent to Earth for our benefit.

Wrong! God is the universe and Christ was a man.

Other species may evolve intelligence (if we let them), and their philosophers will discover the same things ours did: there is no reliable evidence of a monotheistic god.
Trip like I do
QUOTE (Rick @ Aug 24, 01:16 PM)
QUOTE (Trip like I do @ Aug 23, 06:33 PM)
Remember, we discovered God only through Christ, whom God had sent to Earth for our benefit.

Wrong! God is the universe and Christ was a man.


We did not, however, as a global society, discover the Christian carnation of the Omnipresent One until Christ , God's son and representitive here on Earth, was introduced into the cutural milleau and Christian ideology accepted.

Would we have discovered Christianity and God if God never bore us Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour?
Rick
I certainly hope not. Christianity is false and therefore wrong. Think of all the evil done in the name of the cross.
Trip like I do
So, Jesus Christ was the evil spawn of the Devil and was not bore upon this Earth as the legitimate messenger of God?

Why do you believe Christianity and it's theological teachings is wrong?

...and it is a battle, after all, for the hearts and minds of mortal men, for there can be only one God.

The evil that has been done was done as a cleansing neccesity throughout the evolution of mankind.

....purging the Earth of false beliefs.
Trip like I do
QUOTE (Rick @ Aug 24, 01:16 PM)
Wrong! God is the universe and Christ was a man.


God is the Universe and Christ was his messenger.
Trip like I do
Off topic, Rick do you have any TA advice for me for the upcoming 2005/2006 academic year?
Trip like I do
God

Hermes called him eternal.

Thales called him the most ancient.

Plato called him the innate source of the universe and the repository of all understanding.

Others - the infinite cause, both outside all things and yet in all things and everywhere.

Others - the Being of Beings, the Prime Cause insofar as other causes are derived from it, the maker and originator of all.

Others - the Prince of worldly things, the ruler, the arranger, the first mover and the first moving, the immovable beginning: because all things are moved by him, though he remains immovable, and not subject to suffering, since he is always stable, fixed and permanent.

Trithemius calls the source of all worlds.

Democritus concluded that God contains every name, since all is in him and he himself is in everything, not unlike the manner in which all straight lines drawn from the centre to the circumference are said to be in the centre.

Jesus Christ, the son of God, conveyed the true knowledge of the divine mind.
Rick
QUOTE (Trip like I do @ Aug 24, 12:54 PM)
So, Jesus Christ was the evil spawn of the Devil and was not bore upon this Earth as the legitimate messenger of God?

Why do you believe Christianity and it's theological teachings is wrong?

There have been and will be many good teachers of wisdom. However, Jesus was not perfect, as he, like all teachers, was a human being. One of his errors was his insistence on uncritical belief.

Another way in which most Christian sects go wrong is in the false belief that time is a dimension in which the past and future have permanent existence. This is the origin of the false Calvinist doctrine of predestination.

Propagating false beliefs is wrong. Questioning beliefs is right.
Rick
QUOTE (Trip like I do @ Aug 24, 12:58 PM)
Of topic, Rick do you have any TA advice for me for the upcoming 2005/2006 academic year?

Work hard, be good to the students, and help your professor as much as possible.
rhymer
Ricks quote "Propagating false beliefs is wrong. Questioning beliefs is right."

I suspect that as long as a person believes something to be the truth, even though that belief is unproveable as a truth, that person will propagate it, even though it may not be in the best interest of those who hear it.
I agree that questioning beliefs is appropriate, but suspect that it is for each individual to seek out beliefs which best match their own experience of the World bearing in mind the probability of closeness to the Truth of the real world.
This process is going to take millions of years, unless average skills of differentiating between truth and falsity increase exponentially over coming years.
In the absence of Established Truth, unskilled people have to believe (willynilly) what others dictate, or what they may conjure up for themselves, to suit their own familial, religiose, peer or group thoughts (or to make money)!
This is life and always has been so. That which is incomprehensible has to be associated with something else (God) to leave ones mind free to get on with all the other daily problems, even if this means an even greater burden on a persons time.
In short, most people need God and I believe they should be free to have Him as long as they don't put me down for my beliefs.
After all, one cannot force people not to believe in Him and one cannot prove that He doesn't exist.
Obviously, if He doesn't exist, all believers have wasted a lot of their time.
And if He does exist, I am for the frier!
Also, I suspect that many who do fear the Lord, and have curbed selfish activities to the benefit of Society, have indeed made life more bearable for those with whom they have been in contact.
I happen to try to abide by the principles of Christianity except for the belief in God as portrayed to us by the Bible. This is my personal choice.
Trip like I do
Are not some truths self-propagating, without the need of human intervention and human propagation?

Do you believe that man was created in the image of God?
rhymer
QUOTE (Trip like I do @ Aug 25, 01:48 AM)
Are not some truths self-propagating, without the need of human intervention and human propagation?

Do you believe that man was created in the image of God?

I'm not sure about some truths being self-propagating.
I cannot now think of any such.
I have no doubt that an infinite number of truths exist independently of man and will occur even when no humans exist on our planet.

I have no concept of a God, except as an imaginary 'being or force', so cannot believe man was created in His image.
I do believe the God concept is and has been useful to the survival of mankind.
I also believe the God concept has caused much harm, but have no idea which effect is the greater.
Trip like I do
Genesis I: God made man in his own image.

Trip like I do
Faith is hardwired into our genes?
rhymer
Man is by nature inquisitive.
Knowledge of the truth is an ideal for which many strive.
In its absence 'we don't know'.
This can be a mentally, emotionally and spiritually painful state which may be alleviated by accepting a faith or belief.
Such acceptance can lead after time to the feeling of 'knowing the truth'.

Far harder, is coping with the unknown and seeking explanations to unknowns until the truthful answers are known or it becomes recognised that the truth is not ascertainable.
Trip like I do
"There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say, we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know."

....Donald Rumsfeld, from a February 12, 2002 news briefing.
Rick
QUOTE (rhymer @ Aug 24, 04:50 PM)
... one cannot prove that He doesn't exist. ... And if He does exist, I am for the frier!

Also, I suspect that many who do fear the Lord, and have curbed selfish activities to the benefit of Society, have indeed made life more bearable for those with whom they have been in contact.

I suspect that the religious fundamentalists are so anti-science precisely because they are afraid scientists will eventually prove that the gods don't exist.

If God does exist, fear not. Remember that Saint Peter, who denied Christ three times before the cock crowed twice, holds the keys to Heaven. Surely, Saint Peter will understand that good works far outweigh piety.

Also, I suspect that the false belief that life is merely a prelude to the main event (afterlife), decreases the believer's inclination to hold life to be precious, and therefore the believer may be more likely to commit violence. The old "shoot them all now and let God sort them out" mentality.
Unknown
Surely there were traditions before Jesus that had discovered the truth of the ultimate reality. Jesus was not the son of God. This is something I think Christianity takes out of context. We are all the "sons" or manifestations of God, the Source. Our mind, our consciousness, is the mind of God. Jesus was an adept individual who had a great message in a time when humanity probably needed it, but there was nothing about him more "divine" than any other human.
Hey Hey
.....meanwhile babies die in Africa......
Rick
And in New Orleans and Biloxi.
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