I am myself a fledgling investigator in this area. I mean its not my primary area which is living structures in general. I believe a lot can be figured out by getting to the roots of sex differences and consiousness. That is the averge male and female have different experiences of reality.

Male brain structure (which is neurodeveloped) tends towards a greater neuron density within the grey matter and hance a tendency towards greater sensory "hunger". That is the male brain devours external reality. Also Circulating Testosterone reduces the quality of self awareness. (although i'm not going to define consciousness on the basis of self awareness anyway. )

Female brain structure tends towards a greater connective density within the grey matter and also increaed white matter in the frontal lobes. Females tend to be more self reflective or self conscious and more prone to misjudging sensory information. Also the white matter synchrony is looking like a promising area for whole brain binding.


So whats it to be ? is self awareness a definition of consiousness ? Then males are less conscious yet that cant be true as we have a clearer take on what comes through our senses. My little bit for this debate then is that to figure out what consciousness is, seperate then amalgamate male / female brain processing.

What do you mean by 'whole brain binding?'

have you ever met an average male or female? Human intervariability is such that making blanket statements about the sexes is bound to be wrong. You need to incorporate human intervariability into the equation, because general statements that males have x more neurons than females or whatever do not take into account the fact that some females will have x more neurons than males because they deviate sufficiently from the female mean.



this is news to me. What evidence or studies demonstrate greater neuron density in males?

h


Obviously we are just looking at overall averages here.





please tell me youre not asking because you are an overtly sensitive female. The female and male systems are equal and opposite. Sorry but for today i'm too lazy to get the references.

[/quote]

What do you mean by 'whole brain binding?'
[/quote]

i keep getting told off for using non standard terms. Just the same thing that everyone else in this chase the prize binding racket is on about. Come on you know what i mean.

Currently I'm getting shoe horned into partly adapting my research for brain binding, or repackaging it for this because its a current scientific "holy grail" and "sells better in publication submission"

It might not even be an issue. Look what happened to hammerof.

repliers to this thread. Lets not nitpicking just details. .I mean lets discuss details by all means, but not to ignore the overall point. Which is How do you define consciousness when its so different within males and females ? Thats the title of the thread. I only touched on male/female differences, so the point is to discuss that subject as it stands.

I'm not trying to be dramatic. I guess this is just my own creative problem. Bringing up a fresh debate provides the energy to get motivated to do dreary stuff such as find references and chew over previously well argued definitions.

So what about it. Just how different is male / female processing. Am i explaining these differences properly ?

ok i'mbeing rude..no posting near bedtime for sprinklehopper

It's largely as different or similar as the individual in question chooses to make it. This brings in the whole genes versus environment bag of worms. I'd be fascinated to learn more about female mental processing; I know it's different from mine, but mine is different from most everyone, so where would that put me? The problem with posing this question of male/female differences is that it rapidly degrades into either sexist chauvenistic crap or PC crap. So which is it going to be?

Surely you cant be serious. As men and women (on average) great parts of us are total reversals of each other. Phsyical, brain and genetic process.

doi:10.1016/j.neuroimage.2004.11.019
Copyright � 2004 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
Rapid Communication

The neuroanatomy of general intelligence: sex matters

Richard J. Haiera, , , Rex E. Jungb, Ronald A. Yeoc, Kevin Heada and Michael T. Alkired

aDepartment of Pediatrics, University of California, Med. Sci. I, B140, Irvine, CA 92697-5000, USA
bDepartment of Neurology and MIND Institute, University of New Mexico, Albuquerque, NM 87131, USA
cDepartment of Psychology, University of New Mexico, Albuquerque, NM 87131, USA
dDepartment of Anesthesiology, University of California Irvine Medical Center, Bldg. 53, 104B, Orange, CA 92868-1350, USA

Received 21 October 2004; revised 4 November 2004; accepted 9 November 2004. Available online 16 January 2005.


Abstract
We examined the relationship between structural brain variation and general intelligence using voxel-based morphometric analysis of MRI data in men and women with equivalent IQ scores. Compared to men, women show more white matter and fewer gray matter areas related to intelligence. In men IQ/gray matter correlations are strongest in frontal and parietal lobes (BA 8, 9, 39, 40), whereas the strongest correlations in women are in the frontal lobe (BA10) along with Broca's area. Men and women apparently achieve similar IQ results with different brain regions, suggesting that there is no singular underlying neuroanatomical structure to general intelligence and that different types of brain designs may manifest equivalent intellectual performance.

YEt even with these reversals equivalent.





Rinsho Byori. 1995 Jul;43(7):713-7. Related Articles, Links

[Sex-related differences in EEG coherence in normal young adults--evaluation during rest and photic stimulation]

[Article in Japanese]

Nanbu Y, Wada Y, Kadoshima R, Kitazawa S, Futamata H, Hashimoto T, Koshino Y.

Central Clinical Laboratory, Kanazawa University Hospital.

EEG coherence is a noninvasive technique for studying functional relationships between brain regions. Although EEG coherence would be a useful method to explore the differences in cerebral functional organization between the sexes, sex differences in coherence have not been well documented. The present study was conducted therefore to examine sex differences in interhemispheric EEG coherence during rest and photic stimulation (PS) in 15 male and 15 female healthy young adults. Interhemispheric coherence of the resting EEG revealed no significant sex differences for any frequency band. In contrast, coherence during PS revealed significant sex differences, and the females had a significantly higher coherence than the males in the frequency band (4.5-5.5Hz) corresponding to 5Hz PS. In addition, the changes in interhemispheric coherence from rest to the stimulus condition (i.e., coherence reactivity) showed sex differences at the brain region primarily involved in visual functioning; the females had significantly greater coherence reactivity for O1-O2 in EEG during PS at 5 and 15Hz. These findings indicate sex differences in interhemispheric EEG coherence during PS, and provide further evidence that sex-related differences exist in the degree of lateralization of hemispheric function.




Probably as someone who seeks their own truth. How would you know to what degree this is a psychological trait or a biological one ? I thought I had a wierd brain. Now that i studied sex differences and my genetic background ashkenazi/italian, i am able to discern it as a high IQ male brain. Which is just a fast variant of the standard male brain which billions of other people have.

I read a paper on high IQ male brains. which i cant find now. They are very analytical and also very lazy tending to shut down their own EEG. They need loads of mental stimulation.





. erm..am i restricted to just those two choices ? both of these tendencies would be detrimental to truth seeking.



Drinkle

So, Sprinklecroppler, with this genetic background you were supposedly endowed by nature with special IQ abilities not available to most of us, according to sprinklehopper( [post # 66 /forum/index.php?showt...0&#entry61564); What do you make of his allegations? Are they true?

ididnt directly state my IQ is from the jewish side. However my mother who is ashkenzai and is a scientist has an IQ of 147. This wasnt due to intense early training and in fact her younger life was a bit of a mess.

She used to be a heavy goods instructor and just decided at the age of 40 to go to uni and pursue a medical career. A good indicator of IQ is that you just get really good or are incredibly intense at anything you decide to pursue regardless of previous training.

My mother says my father who is italian was quite intelligent. Italians do have higher IQ's than the average European. (from IQ wealth of nations) Personally i had trouble seeing it.

Also allegations for what ? Its no bed of roses. getting CNS disease also. Read the economist article on ashkenzai IQ to the end. The conclusion is that jews have paid a heavy price by breeding for IQ. More prone to childhood death and getting all kind of adult diseases of the nervous system, related to lipids. This is in fact true of myself. I was quite ill many years ago till i discovered i needed a lot of omega 3. (2-4000 mg daily of high quality salmon oil) This might explain why my grandparents spent their retirment holidays trying to find good salmon. Old age blood flow brain disorders run in the family, as do hypersensitive nervous systems, and other fat requirment disorders on the russian side, many cousins have quite unbelievable obesity, and several younger ones succumbed to autism.

I wasn't nitpicking, Sprinkle. I'm not even a scientist, but I love science. I'm a layman you're talking to here. So, my question about 'whole brain binding' was meant to enlightnen (me), not to tickle (you).

whole brain binding, refers to an argument about consciousness itself. It isnt really my area which is structural. In fact id rather run away from binding. Plenty of people here will describe what binding is way better than me,


..anyone describe binding ? I have difficulty explaining ideas i spend all my time on.

A good analogy would beMax headroom and the glitches in his mental processes. His DVD player keeps jumping, and its evident, because hes only got one DVD player. If he had an array of ..

In fact type "stuart hameroff" into google. Whether his ideas are right or wrong he explains the subject well.

Sprinklehopper's right. Men are denser than women.

Never mind Sprinkler! Now you're insulting my intelligence. I do have an undergraduate degree, you know! I understand science lingo, for the most part.

I do think the topic is worth exploring. Considering the significant differences in male vs. female brains, it follows that gender influences consciousness. (Turns out, female brains are denser, wouldn't you know it?)

This article is pretty interesting:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-2832.html

Here are a few highlights:

Males and females are different from the moment of conception, and the difference shows itself in every system of body and brain.

Men, overall, have larger brains than women (their heads and bodies are larger), but the sexes score equally well on tests of intelligence.

Females have about 15 to 20 percent more gray matter than males.

The female brain is more densely packed with neurons and dendrites, providing concentrated processing power -- and more thought-linking capability.

White matter gives males superiority at spatial reasoning. The white matter advantage of males suppresses activation of areas that could interfere with work.

The white matter in women's brains is more concentrated in the corpus callosum, which links the brain's hemispheres, allowing the right side of the brain to help with language.

The superiority of males at spatial cognition and females' talent for language probably subserve the more basic difference of systemizing versus empathizing.

Thats a disgrace. The guy has a phd and the whole thing is wrong and full of errors. It was so bad, I couldnt bring myself to read his stuff on neurogenetics.



Thats all wrong. The female grey matter increase in density is packed with neuropil which supports dendrites. Females have lesss neurons than males. Seeing at there are less neurons in the female brain those dendrites will be hooking up with axons, which are information distributors.

Neurons tend to be energy hungry input suckers. This is why us guys are strong onbreaking down, taking in information and not discussing it with our best friends. Women have less neurons, this is why they cannot keep anything to themselves and represent the worlds gossip network.





Again this persons article is all wrong. What does "white matter advantage of males suppresses activation of areas that could interfere with work" mean ? Neuron density give males superiority at spatial reasoning, because cortical neurons are ideally suited to being spatial summarizers. Women have more white matter overall than men and its located mainly in the most important area. The left frontal lobe. (see paper in this thread : Sex matters the general anatomy of intelligence). Male corpus callosum is thicker than females, although its smaller at either extremity. Males have inferior white matter. Testosterone itself interferes with the glial repair process and hence ability of white matter, which is one reason males succcumb to autism.




Glad to see they got something right.

Males and Females are really really different.

maybe white matter means more delusions =)~

Ridiculous! Either Ruben Gur is a quack or he was misquoted

what does that mean ?

I think this article might make sprinklehopper happier, as it appears to be better supported by scientific research. That said, and since sprinklehopper made that crack about female gossip, I have to say that regardless physical differences, it's obvious that women's brains are superior to men's. Since men are physically stronger than women, they've never really needed superior intelligence to "rule the roost". Yet the family unit and social cooperation could never have survived had brute force been the main controlling mechanism. Women HAD to evolve with a keener intelligence--and they did. Don't believe me? Look around. Do you know any married couples in which the woman doesn't make most of the major decisions? Neither do I.

http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n11/mente/e...bro-homens.html

Studying Differences in the Brain
There are now a number of sophisticated neuroscientific methods which allow scientists to probe minute differences between any two groups of brains. There are several approaches, brought forth by advancements in computerized image processing, such as tomography (detailed imaging of the brain using "slices"):

1. volumetric measurements of brain parts: a region is defined, and the computer, working with a pile of slices, calculates the areas of the brain region, and then integrates numerically several areas in order to calculate its approximate volume. Statistical analysis of samples containing several brains are able to discover (or not) any differences in volume, thickness, etc.
2. functional imaging: using advanced devices, such as PET (Positron Emission Tomography), fMRI (functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging) or Brain Topographic Electroencephalography, researchers are able to visualize in two and three dimensions what parts of brain are functionally activated when a given task is performed by the subjects.
3. post-mortem examinations. The brains of deceased individuals are excised and sliced. Modern image analysis techniques are used to detect quantitative differences, such as the number and form of neurons and other brain cells, the area, thickness and volumes of brain regions, etc.

Scientists working at Johns Hopkins University, recently reporting in the "Cerebral Cortex" scholarly journal, have discovered that there is a brain region in the cortex, called inferior-parietal lobule (IPL) which is significantly larger in men than in women. This area is bilateral and is located just above the level of the ears (parietal cortex).

Furthermore, the left side IPL is larger in men than the right side. In women, this asymmetry is reversed, although the difference between left and right sides is not so large as in men, noted the JHU researchers. This is the same area which was shown to be larger in the brain of Albert Einstein, as well as in other physicists and mathematicians. So, it seems that IPL's size correlates highly with mental mathematical abilities. Morphological brain differences in intellectual skills were suspected to exist by neurologists since the times of phrenology (although this was proved to be a wrong approach), in the 19th century. The end of the 20th century has witnessed the first scientific proofs for that.

The study, led by Dr. Godfrey Pearlson, was performed by analyzing the MRI scans of 15 men and women. Volumes were calculated by a software package developed by Dr. Patrick Barta, a JHU psychiatrist. After allowing for the natural differences in overall brain volume which exist between the brains of men and women, there was still a difference of 5% between the IPL volumes (human male brains are, on average, approximately 10 % larger than female, but this is because of men's larger body size: more muscle cells imply more neurons to control them).

In general, the IPL allows the brain to process information from senses and help in selective attention and perception (for example, women are more able to focus on specific stimuli, such as a baby crying in the night). Studies have linked the right IPL with the memory involved in understanding and manipulating spatial relationships and the ability to sense relationships between body parts. It is also related to the perception of our own affects or feelings. The left IPL is involved with perception of time and speed, and the ability of mentally rotate 3-D figures (as in the well-known Tetris game).

Another previous study by the same group led by Dr. Godfrey Pearlson has shown that two areas in the frontal and temporal lobes related to language (the areas of Broca and Wernicke, named after their discoverers) were significantly larger in women, thus providing a biological reason for women's notorious superiority in language-associated thoughts. Using magnetic resonance imaging, the scientists measured gray matter volumes in several cortical regions in 17 women and 43 men. Women had 23% (in Broca's area, in the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex) and 13% (in Wernicke's area, in the superior temporal cortex) more volume than men.

These results were later corroborated by another research group from the School of Communication Disorders, University of Sydney, Australia, which was able to prove these anatomical differences in the areas of Wernicke and of Broca. The volume of the Wernicke's area was 18% larger in females compared with males, and the cortical volume the Broca's area in females was 20% larger than in males.

On the other hand, additional evidence comes from research showing that the corpus callosum, a large tract of neural fibers which connect both brain hemispheres, is enlarged in women, compared to men, although this discovery has been challenged recently.

In another research, a group from the University of Cincinnati, USA, Canada, presented morphological evidence that while men have more neurons in the cerebral cortex, women have a more developed neuropil, or the space between cell bodies, which contains synapses, dendrites and axons, and allows for communication among neurons. According to Dr. Gabrielle de Courten-Myers, this research may explain why women are more prone to dementia (such as Alzheimer's disease) than men, because although both may lose the same number of neurons due to the disease, "in males, the functional reserve may be greater as a larger number of nerve cells are present, which could prevent some of the functional losses."

The researchers made measurements on slices of brains of 17 deceased persons (10 males and seven females), such as the cortex thickness and number of neurons in several places of the cortex.

Other researchers, led by Dr. Bennett A. Shaywitz, a professor of Pediatrics at the Yale University School of Medicine, discovered that the brain of women processes verbal language simultaneously in the two sides (hemispheres) of the frontal brain, while men tend to process it in the left side only. They performed a functional planar magnetic resonance tomographic imaging of the brains of 38 right-handed subjects (19 males and 19 females). The difference was demonstrated in a test that asked subjects to read a list of nonsense words and determine if they rhyme. Curiously, oriental people which use pictographic (or ideographic) written languages tend also to use both sides of the brain, regardless of gender.

Although most of the anatomical and functional studies done so far have focused on the cerebral cortex, which is responsible for the higher intellectual and cognitive functions of the brain, other researchers, such as Dr. Simon LeVay, have shown that there are gender differences in more primitive parts of the brain, such as the hypothalamus, where most of the basic functions of life are controlled, including hormonal control via the pituitary gland. LeVay discovered that the volume of a specific nucleus in the hypothalamus (third cell group of the interstitial nuclei of the anterior hypothalamus) is twice as large in heterosexual men than in women and homosexual men, thus prompting a heated debate whether there is a biological basis for homosexuality. Dr. LeVay wrote an interesting book about the sex differences in the brain, titled "The Sexual Brain".

Forgot to log in.

That last post was mine.

You got boss and balls mixed up. And this is not a cheaovinistic statement.

depends on how you define 'major decision'. Maybe the men this article is referring to wear the skirts in the marriage, but this is not true of all married men.

I would also agree that females are better decision makers, seeing as they tend to be more left brain dominant. Also that review made a lot better sense

No P.C. Here. My overall view so far in the sense for population genetics is that the sex abstractions are equal and reverse. But this varies towards one sex or ther other if you look at races or even religions. Females tend to have the upper hand in races, and men in religions. I'll leave it at that, as I've not got enough firepower ready to hike really good references regarding populations. Well i have, but the web is not the place to develop a draft one on that subject ?

How about IQ ? so far the females gene selections appear to hike IQ. MTdna for faster neuron respiration and autosomal neuroimmunity problems for when selected for strongly hikes IQ by allowing the respiration to be put out in the brain.

To balance it out I think what men donate to IQ is abstract and strongly creative. Male IQ is mostly about neuron breakdown.That is physicality itself alters abstract reasoning through the cerebellum. I also saw some stuff regarding creativity going through the roof after doing strenous weightlifting. How do you measure mans creativity ? When you look at a load of the greatest creative men they have above average IQ's, but of more relavence a greater sensory intake ability for the IQ to utilize. Creative men often have a long input period, preceding a breakthrough. Seeing as the average female brains are reversing almost to males in their sensory input abilities, they can't bring creative strength. Not that women are not creative. By and large, abstract thinkers and genius tend to be male. Creativity then re-addresses the IQ imbalance, which does seem to favour feminine biased genetics. (jews and orientals being the best examples)

Predicting a bad reaction here. Its no bed of roses. For that top percentile of great men to arise requires a pool of men burdened with all kinds of useless or average talents and mild mental disorders for those top dogs to arise. This is how the male pool operates and creativity cannot be measured for this reason. Not in my opinion anyway. Neuron Chemistry in the right brain abstracts itself according to context. That mans set of abstract skills may be useless now but in great demand twenty years later. male brain structure is too highly heterogenous to be given a standard test for. Spatial is a good general indicator. How creative can you be when sitting an IQ test ? A Strong driven feeling is part of creativity. Sitting IQ tests doesnt exactly get the creative wheels whirring.


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