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Rajesh
Memory of the God.

Memory is as mysterious as God/Intelligence/Consciousness/Enlightenment.
Understanding one of them means understanding all of them. They are just different names for the same mystery.

What is Memory?

Whatever is outside the attention and can be brought into the attention is Memory.
Attention indicates 'Present' and Out-of-attention indicates 'Past/Future'.

When something comes from lesser-attention to more-attention it is perceived as Past(or old).
When something comes from no-attention to more-attention it is perceived as Future(or new).

Present is a strong attention
Past is a weak attention
Future is absence of attention.

Hence Memory(and Future/Past/Present) is actually an inverse function of Attention.
Alternately, when the attention is infinitely strong, Past and Future becomes the Present, and hence the memory becomes infinitely weak.

For an omnipresent God, Future/Past/Present are with in his attention.
Hence his attention has to be infinite and memory is zero.

When a human being expands his attention to infinity, he becomes god.
Alternately, when a human being zeroes down his memory, he becomes god.

Human is the God with Memory.
God is the Human without Memory.
G
for the mystic everything is a mystery
dbdbdbdb
Rajesh, this post is very interesting and though-provoking, but is it true? You are trying to synthesize Time and Timelessness through expanded attention. Does that mean you're distinguishing between attention, awareness, and consciousness? If so then how precisely are they distinguished?

dbdbdbdb
I meant "thought-provoking" in my last post. Very very thought-provoking.
Rajesh
QUOTE

but is it true?


It sounds logical to me.

QUOTE

Does that mean you're distinguishing between attention, awareness, and consciousness? If so then how precisely are they distinguished?


For me, attention, awareness, and consciousness are the same. I used the word attention as it is more easy to understand than the other two.


Joesus
QUOTE
For me, attention, awareness, and consciousness are the same. I used the word attention as it is more easy to understand than the other two.

Attention and awareness are not the same as consciousness. Consciousness is, and it is beyond the activity of the senses. Awareness and attention are two different things.
Attention is the holding or maintaining of an idea or reality. Awareness is consciousness in activity within the maintained reality, the connecting link between consciousness and its thoughts, definitions or beliefs in manifest form.

God is and cannot be separated from any form or non-form
G
Attention is the holding or maintaining of an idea or reality.

That doesn't sound right. Attention is more like the focusing and allocation of ones mental resources.

This is not just a definitional thing where everyone can make up their own definitions. I assume that you and I both know what "attention" is and so it just comes down to accurately describing this in word form. What you describe as "attention" sounds more like a definition for "awareness". Also, there seems no way conceivable to persuasively show a difference between assuming a "greater consciousness" beyond our awareness and assuming that "consciousness" is equal to our awareness.

Guest
QUOTE (Joesus @ Apr 17, 09:49 AM)
God is and cannot be separated from any form or non-form


Joesus, how can you legitimately maintain your distinctions between the above terms within the framework of your monism? Or more openly, what exactly has meaning in your monistic framework?

Joesus
Experience of an unchanging absolute and that absolute being present in all experience.
Guest
QUOTE (Joesus @ Apr 17, 08:09 PM)
Experience of an unchanging absolute and that absolute being present in all experience.

what makes you think your absolute exists outside your experience?
Guest
QUOTE (Guest @ Apr 18, 08:40 PM)
QUOTE (Joesus @ Apr 17, 08:09 PM)
Experience of an unchanging absolute and that absolute being present in all experience.

what makes you think your absolute exists outside your experience?

and what is absolute about an absolute if people experience the absolute differently? Why would you think people can experience the same absolute as you?
Joesus
QUOTE
and what is absolute about an absolute if people experience the absolute differently? Why would you think people can experience the same absolute as you?

Any one person will experience the absolute the same way everyone else experiences it.
The association to descriptive language and past experiences of the relative always makes it personal, but it never changes.
From the vedic texts to the western descriptions of christianity it has been the focal point of all religions and the point of reference in the enlightened teachings of the past and present.
Once one experiences it and recognizes its eternal presence in all experience it is easily recognized as the same stable presence when another describes it, regardless of the descriptions that are personal.
Rajesh
QUOTE

Attention and awareness are not the same as consciousness. Consciousness is, and it is beyond the activity of the senses. Awareness and attention are two different things.
Attention is the holding or maintaining of an idea or reality. Awareness is consciousness in activity within the maintained reality, the connecting link between consciousness and its thoughts, definitions or beliefs in manifest form.

God is and cannot be separated from any form or non-form


In my post I just attempted to explain the cause of dualism in simple terms, from the perspective of memory. I tried to be carefull not use any term which will lead to argument on the definition of the term. (As this has been my experience in my previous posts).

Lets interpret the terms I used in a very conventional way, so that everyone can understand what I mean and talk the same language.

I understand monism. But what I am trying here is to explain the cause of dualism, through the concept of memory.



Joesus
You are bound to be misunderstood and argued with Raj. That is the effect of dualism.
When you are no longer affected by it you will have freed yourself and everyone else to live in the world but not of it.
ABIDA RIAZ
God is always with unlimited memeory and attention.......we humans are unable to reach him...He is above all humanly attributes like memory or attention...
ABIDA RIAZ
QUOTE (ABIDA RIAZ @ Apr 20, 09:20 AM)
God is always with unlimited memeory and attention.....No relationship between attention and memory can be establish ..we humans are unable to reach Him...He is exempted from humanly attributes like memory or attention...

[FONT=Times][COLOR=purple]
Rajesh
QUOTE (Joesus @ Apr 19, 07:24 AM)
You are bound to be misunderstood and argued with Raj. That is the effect of dualism.
When you are no longer affected by it you will have freed yourself and everyone else to live in the world but not of it.

I understand what do you mean!

Laz
Rajesh did your memory of God idea come from anywhere, is it based on anything, or is it your own personal explanation?

Either way I would like to read more of this idea, can you help me out?
Rajesh
QUOTE (Laz @ Apr 21, 05:33 AM)
Rajesh did your memory of God idea come from anywhere, is it based on anything, or is it your own personal explanation?

Either way I would like to read more of this idea, can you help me out?

It is my personal explanation. I myself searching for similar thoughts and did not find any so far.

I, too, would like to explore more from the perspective of memory.

Laz
Are you able to deepen you thoughts on the process of moving a memory toward zero and an attention toward God?

I'm thinking that there should be techniques to learn, maybe the road to enlightenment also takes this into account!
Joesus
There are some very effective techniques
Laz
Um... thanks Joe!
Rajesh
QUOTE (Laz @ Apr 22, 01:08 AM)
Are you able to deepen you thoughts on the process of moving a memory toward zero and an attention toward God?

I'm thinking that there should be techniques to learn, maybe the road to enlightenment also takes this into account!


I can imagine attention as a container and memory as the process of bringing content to the container.

When we are in deep sleep, the container is absent, and hence memory becomes zero as it cannot bring any content.
Hence, in the deep sleep you are actually reaching the zero memory state, but you don’t realize it as the attention is absent.

The container is so used to getting the contents, it goes off when there is no flow of content coming into it.
We sleep off when we are not actively doing anything.
It is this behavior of the container (attention), which is blocking us from experiencing a zero memory state.

Another view,

It is like moving a circular ring (=attention) over a page of a book (=content). This is how memory brings contents into attention. You can move into past and future by moving the ring back and forth.

Alternate way is to stretch the ring (attention). This means no moving back and forth and hence no memory.

Hence the technique is "do not move the attention, instead expand the attention"
To stop moving the attention, it needs to be centered first.
After centering the attention, it can be expanded.

I am not an expert in techniques, which could lead to centering and expansion of attention.
I guess there are many techniques based on meditation/yoga/...



Enki
QUOTE (Rajesh @ Apr 17, 04:29 AM)
Memory of the God.

Alternately, when the attention is infinitely strong, Past and Future becomes the Present, and hence the memory becomes infinitely weak.

For an omnipresent God, Future/Past/Present are with in his attention.
Hence his attention has to be infinite and memory is zero.

Very interesting.

How Dalai Lama regains his memory each time when he re-borns again?
I mean if there are no priests etc nearby, can Dalai Lama regain his memory on his own?

Or I am asking a question having no relation with this topic?
Rajesh
If something goes out of attention(completely) and comes back to attention then it will not be recognized as 'past'. Only those things which come from a weak attention to a strong attention is recognized as past.

For somebody to remember their past life, they must have retained their attention(atleast weakly) even after their death and all along until the next birth.

Ofcourse, we assume here Attention/Memory is non-physical.


Robert the Bruce
Have you looked into Carlos Castaneda's 'ATTENTION POINTS'?

A physical point on our body can be used to send a person to another realm. The MRI/SPECT research at Harvard addresses this though they do not know it. Each part of the body is connected to a part of the brain as acupuncture, reflexology and all so many other disciplines know. Our chakras are in touch with the akashic or ether throughout all time.

If you do not get my work - look into The Wonder Child by a team of psychologists.
Enki
QUOTE (Rajesh @ Sep 15, 08:34 AM)
If something goes out of attention(completely) and comes back to attention then it will not be recognized as 'past'. Only those things which come from a weak attention to a strong attention is recognized as past.

For somebody to remember their past life, they must have retained their attention(atleast weakly) even after their death and all along until the next birth.

Ofcourse, we assume here Attention/Memory is non-physical.

Is there any practical mechanisms available?

Let us pretend that there is life after death, and let us pretend that such a thing, as reincarnation exists. In view of that supposition please consider the following question.
Do you know a person who could use his former knowledge, which he had in his past life, in his present life? I mean could he use his former database?
Rajesh
QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Sep 15, 08:41 AM)
Have you looked into Carlos Castaneda's 'ATTENTION POINTS'?

A physical point on our body can be used to send a person to another realm.

No. Sounds interesting.
Rajesh
QUOTE (Enki @ Sep 15, 10:25 AM)
Do you know a person who could use his former knowledge, which he had in his past life, in his present life? I mean could he use his former database?

The key point in my post is that, from human perspective, memory and god are two extremes.

Now, one can choose one of the two approaches
1) To approach god, (one should move away from memory).
2) Or, to approach memory

I am more interested in moving towards god.

As far as I know, most of the (eastern) experts say that there are techniques to gain access to memory across time and space.
But they all suggest, not to be interested in them, as it implies moving away from god.

I have heard one philosopher saying, "Your own memories are miserable, why do you want to add more miseries to it". smile.gif


Robert the Bruce
They also say that pursuing 'siddhis' or power is an act that will achieve less and one will become a mere sorcerer rather than part of 'What IS' - god.
Robert the Bruce
I once met a Beverly Hills banker in a field where a roadblock caused many interesting people to meet.

He was sitting away form the rest of us and I went up to him and asked 'Excuse me, are you doing the Sorcerer's Walk?'

He was on his way to Sedona to hear a Chilean psychological researcher and scientist speak.

Yes, Carlos is more than many and you might know that Dr. Wayne Dyer credits him greatly for the work he does in You'll See it, When you believe it.

The vital point is to never simply believe and having worked to be the Impeccable Warrior one becomes 'distanced' and without soulful holes.

Giving one's all and owing nothing to anyone is part of this (see Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics). When one does not live life with this kind of Purpose we all suffer. Of course we all are not even close to understanding the bounty of giving without expectation.

Kahlil Gibran puts it this way - 'There are those who as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance to the air, these are the children of God and through them he smiles upon the earth.'
Enki
QUOTE (Rajesh @ Sep 17, 03:21 AM)
QUOTE (Enki @ Sep 15, 10:25 AM)
Do you know a person who could use his former knowledge, which he had in his past life, in his present life? I mean could he use his former database?

The key point in my post is that, from human perspective, memory and god are two extremes.

Now, one can choose one of the two approaches
1) To approach god, (one should move away from memory).
2) Or, to approach memory

I am more interested in moving towards god.

As far as I know, most of the (eastern) experts say that there are techniques to gain access to memory across time and space.
But they all suggest, not to be interested in them, as it implies moving away from god.

I have heard one philosopher saying, "Your own memories are miserable, why do you want to add more miseries to it". smile.gif

You know I do not understand. Or it is too complex to me or I have to read several books to be able to grasp the idea.

I strongly believe that if beings which are historically were named by men as Gods [or self proclaimed as Gods], and if those beings are Good Beings, respecting the honor and Universal truth as well as the true Good God (who may even turn to be not All Mighty in matters of affecting on the course of human events directly, and maybe only spiritually, with very low probability miracles, or via help of the noted Good Beings), then they have to help people to progress. Imparting knowledge to people is a great goodness. If Good Beings are able to share their memory with mankind they must to do that. If they do not do that it means that they are in some way or another are not Good Beings, and are just Sinful Beings not deserving to keep friendship with. Here the Epicurus paradox comes forth.

And I think that existence of those Beings as well as God MUST be scientifically verified. That is the only way to escape illusions, misleading and false interpretation of reality. I am sure that soon or late that topic will become object of scientific investigations.
Unknown
QUOTE (Enki @ Sep 17, 10:19 PM)

And I think that existence of those Beings as well as God MUST be scientifically verified. That is the only way to escape illusions, misleading and false interpretation of reality. I am sure that soon or late that topic will become object of scientific investigations.


And I think that existence of those Beings as well as God MUST NOT be scientifically verified. That is the only way to escape illusions, misleading and false interpretation of reality. I am sure that soon or late that topic will become object of scientific investigations.


So what's your point? Are we to elevate dogmatism above understanding? It would appear that the signatures of self-centeredness are coming out. And yet there is a vast beyond.


Enki
QUOTE (Unknown @ Sep 17, 10:27 PM)
So what's your point? Are we to elevate dogmatism above understanding?

I do not like dogmatism. I like axioms and candid moral choice based on free will and healthy reason (common sense), and not on fear to get burnt in the Hell.

1. If a man believes in God, then better to believe in Good God even if that Good God in not All Mighty.
2. Anything related with God and substances like that have to be object of scientific investigation.
3. If God and those Beings do exist then that have to be possible to prove scientifically and that is the only way to get real understanding about such concepts. That will help to avoid illusions, misleading and false interpretation of reality!

The Criteria of Truth is pure scientific Experiment.

I think that the slogan of the Royal Society ‘Nullius in Verba’ is the best guiding compass in the see of Words, Concepts and Dreams.
Enki
Besides I want to mention that it is very important to study such problems with advanced scientific methods to clarify the field of religion from wrong concepts and misunderstandings as soon as possible. I think that the time is pressing very hardly.
So nothing has to impede the accelerated development of sciences on Earth. The mankind must get powerful and armed as soon as possible to be able to coupe with very serious dangers.
In view of that it is very important to establish steady peace on our planet to provide very fast structural growth of world economy, which, in its turn, will foster accelerated advances of sciences.

Actual confirmation of life on Mars that showed that life is a natural, not exceptional, step of evolution of Matter in Universe (event with high probability), recent significant experimental results related with Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Paradox actually confirming potential possibility of info momentous transfer between very distant points, and discovery of Earth like planets in close vicinity of our solar systems as well as fantastic achievements in neuroscience, force us to reconsider with great scrutiny all religious writings of all centuries from new point of view.

And if it may turn so, that in one day, some unknown extraterrestrial army will dare to come upon this planet with all its great power over the clouds, then I hope that at those times mankind will be powerful enough to surprise the self proclaimed gods, and the true justice will be done!

In view of that, if it is possible to use that [the above-mentioned] Memory [if it really exists] to transfer knowledge from unknown ‘dimensions’[if to suppose that they exist] to our world as well as establish alliances with unknown good forces, then that Must be done from point of view of Common Sense.

Summarizing I just want to say that it is Senseless to deny something if its non-existence in not possible to confirm. In other words if we have unexplained events related with something, commonly considered as supernatural, we have to be very careful in uncompromising denials, as the Price of such mistakes can be heavy. Certainly at the same time it is wishful to withstand from idiosyncratic conspiracy theories and mysteries based on third order suppositions.
Unknown
QUOTE (Enki @ Sep 17, 10:19 PM)
You know I do not understand. Or it is too complex to me or I have to read several books to be able to grasp the idea.

I strongly believe that if beings which are historically were named by men as Gods [or self proclaimed as Gods], and if those beings are Good Beings, respecting the honor and Universal truth as well as the true Good God (who may even turn to be not All Mighty in matters of affecting on the course of human events directly, and maybe only spiritually, with very low probability miracles, or via help of the noted Good Beings), then they have to help people to progress. Imparting knowledge to people is a great goodness. If Good Beings are able to share their memory with mankind they must to do that. If they do not do that it means that they are in some way or another are not Good Beings, and are just Sinful Beings not deserving to keep friendship with. Here the Epicurus paradox comes forth. 

And I think that existence of those Beings as well as God MUST be scientifically verified. That is the only way to escape illusions, misleading and false interpretation of reality. I am sure that soon or late that topic will become object of scientific investigations.

There is no big philosophy in this thread and nothing complex.

In essence, all it means is:
An alert mind does not remember anything, but it sees and knows everything.

Try this simple exercise:
Keep yourself (very) alert for few seconds.
When you are alert you will observe that you do not remember anything, and you are seeing the reality with more clarity.

You will not remember anything like good/sin/god... instead you will the see the reality as it is.


Enki
QUOTE (Unknown @ Sep 25, 05:16 AM)
In essence, all it means is:
An alert mind does not remember anything, but it sees and knows everything.

You think what Rajesh wrote has such a simple explanation?
I think he refers to other things. I do not understand that yet, but it is interesting and I am thinking about that. Though I do not understand his point clearly but I think it is something complex and interesting. I need time to understand that.
Robert the Bruce
The mundane exercise of being alert is a very miniscule part of what this thread contemplates. Full concentration on just one thing is indeed a good exercise but it will not tap the person into other realms of conscious experience. You will however, learn the discipline to defeat the 'busy-mind' and samsara.
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